[SOP Workgroup] Command and their Paperwork

[Scrambledking]

This is a peripheral document for the SOP Workgroup's overall redesign of the corporate structure, specifically focusing on the intended design of command and departmental paperwork. This also effects the warden due to the current HoS/Warden dynamic.

[pirakaplant]

Besides my individual comments, I agree with the changes proposed in this document.

One thing worth mentioning when it comes to the assigning of Command items: I think command items that benefit the wellbeing of the owner, in moderation, are good in their own right. For example:

• The Chief Engineer's hardsuit and magboots protect their safety in hazardous environments better than regular engineering equipment, but don't actually make them better at actually carrying out the work.
• The Quartermaster's knuckledusters are a self-defence tool for someone responsible for a massive amount of money. They probably fear being jumped a bit more than say, the CMO, even with the assumption that what would be represented in-game as antagonist activity is exceedingly rare. It's not something like a gun that would encourage validhunting, and it doesn't make them better at managing money, but it does give them a bit of self-security.

[pirakaplant]

I find this statement a bit confusing, especially when you identify that they "simply mak[e] [the Chief Engineer] a better engineer". As a Chief Engineer main, I would say that the better tools do reinforce making the CE an engineer plus design-wise, to the point where when I'm not CE, I see the CE giving their spare toolbelt (there shouldn't be a spare but that's a whole different issue separate from that) to another engineer because it's literally just the engineer starting equipment, but better.

[Scrambledking]

I may have misunderstood something then, are the tools not used to increase the speed of fixing engineering errors such as Tesla/Nuke repairs?

[pirakaplant]

They increase the speed of doing anything. Again, they're literally just better tools that rest of the station does not have access to for a sizable chunk of the round. They are literally the definition of "engineer+ equipment".

[pirakaplant]

I would say keep the belt, make the tools in it the same as a normal engineer's. The belt has a bit more space, but that's okay I think.

[Scrambledking]

Something I did consider, but I would rather do so with RCD removal in the construction rework post-UI rework.

[Wlaskow]

CE already is in a good state, the slight increase in unanchoring with the power drill really isnt the main problem, its the never ending RCD thats always in their pocket. Plus, i belive that CE having jaws of life round start is necessary for the theme of being a Chief engineer. with jaws of life basically being a very slow AA without having to hack all the doors along the way, showing the authority that CE has over the station. Keep all the tools and the belt, RCD removal will be enough for many to start playing CE more as a planer, because they certinly wont be hauling all the steel required to fix a med bombing

[pirakaplant]

I guess CE could keep the jaws, but then again, the axe could also pry open powered doors on the original codebase (and the feature would be trivial to port over to Forky).

[Wlaskow]

Fire axe is kinda a sacred weapon and it doesnt really "belong" to CE. Axe on the bridge is for all of command, axe in engi is for all of engi (even if CE has priority over it), while jaws is a personal key to all the doors so to speak. This should save time instead of forcing me to go all the way to the bridge for the axe to fix a random hole inside the reporters room. With the coming RCD removal I belive these tools are needed to fullfil CE primary responsibilty, which is fixing engine fuckups. RCD has to go because it creates a weird situation where CE is better at fixing smaller damage since E RCD is endless, but please leave CEs shiny toys, that are not even exclusive to them, that save like 2 seconds in doafters, they sound and look cool. Main culprit is the RCD, not them

[pirakaplant]

Fire axe is kinda a sacred weapon and it doesnt really "belong" to CE. Axe on the bridge is for all of command, axe in engi is for all of engi (even if CE has priority over it), while jaws is a personal key to all the doors so to speak.

Yeah fair enough. Keep the jaws.

I belive these tools are needed to fullfil CE primary responsibilty, which is fixing engine fuckups.

I disagree. The role of the Chief Engineer is to coordinate engineering work. Obviously they would likely intervene in extreme situations, but I would not count that as part of their primary workload, especially as we move to command being more focused on leading departments instead of doing the bulk of the work. Even if it was, the CE having better tools is going to come up far more in them doing mundane engineering work (which we explicitly do NOT want them to be straight-up better at) than emergency operations.

please leave CEs shiny toys, that are not even exclusive to them, that save like 2 seconds in doafters, they sound and look cool. Main culprit is the RCD, not them

CMO's gloves do the exact same thing for surgery and they're also being slated for removal.

[Teasq]

Keeping the jaws is pretty neat and fitting for the chief engineer. The other tools not so much.

[pirakaplant]

As the author of the doc that proposed the panopticon helm, this is an interesting idea.

The thing is, the panopticon helm was supposed to be a consolation prize to the warden for removing HUDs, as managing prisoners would be made more difficult with the removal of security HUDS. If we follow through with this, we'll have to offer some other authentic means for the warden to see HUDs, maybe as a slightly lighter helmet with big bulky goggles.

Also, I think instead of an AI style vision, making it so you can hop across different bodycams as a spectator would be easier programming wise and fit that specific kind of implementation better.

[Scrambledking]

Sounds good to me, would work even better the day we steal RMC's popout windows too

[pirakaplant]

HOS would keep an eye on the prisoners in this case, right? Like obviously NT's Security subsidiary does not give a shit about prisoner rights, but they would about escapes.

[Scrambledking]

Of course, but it would likely be with less focus as there is an active red alert going on in any situation the warden would likely be responding to that the HoS needs to overview (Thus providing slightly more escape possibility for those in prison)

[Gorsthir]

Putting the Warden in charge of breaches seems like a weird choice. It doesn't really fit into the duties of what a warden would do. And it's not like the warden does not tend to have enough to do already with sentencing alone. At least on higher pop.

[Scrambledking]

I believe the court procedures are out in #97 which explains the current changes to sentencing, but the relevant part for this is that the warden does not sentence any more.

[Scrambledking]

For the greater part of the warden's position, we are attempting to steer them into the second in command during green/blue times, and the "local command" during attacks and the like. (we will likely change the title from warden, but currently this makes it easier to talk about as this is the command specific document)

[ThatOneMoon]

I agree with the overall idea but the specific execution of it feels a bit off

• The CMO gets basicaly nothing, yea being able to see the chem dispenser would help but that is pretty much only to coordinate with Chemistry, otherwise they dont have any extra means to coordinate the rest of medical

• The Hypospray being replace with a charge based stabilization item is actually something i really like the idea of, and the Health Analizer being able to print out reports is pretty cute

• No notes on the Handheld research console, seems pretty much perfect

• The Advanced Robotics console however... i am very uncertain of, at a glance this seems like it would make regular lawboards and the standard robotics console pretty much obsolete, and i am not sure about giving the RD the ability to just, remotely change borg laws like that, feels like it has too much potential for abuse and is overcorrecting into the other dirrection.

• CE also has a similar issue as the CMO, they dont really get anything to coordinate enginners better

• The thing with the changes to the Security/Warden dynamic, my opinions against it aside it feels out of scope for this Design Doc and probably more appropriate as a seperate one

[Scrambledking]

For the CMO and CE, most of what they will get will change depending on the coming Medical rework and Construction rework. This is because one of it I need to personally see the actually functioning medical rework in order to understand what would fit it best, and the construction rework is far enough away that it's PR is yet to be released and the component parts would not make enough sense (it is waiting on the UI rework).

For the borg console upgrade, yea it is a pretty far fetched idea, and mostly stems from the loss of robotics as a job and so pushing RD having command-control over borgs (plus the tech is in universe with the law upload console and would provide an "alternate" way to sabotage borgs other than emagging everyday). In the end I expect Rain to determine how silicones interface with the rest of funky's theme anyway.

The HoS/Warden duo comes as a pair as the warden is the closest thing to a "pseudo-command" position that we currently have and is planned to be able to be on-point during breaches, departmental searches, and the like in place of the HoS. They will likely get a more explicit expansion of the ideas within the larger security doc including the Security Training Manual rework.

[Terkala]

Many of the items in consideration for command roles are items not present on Forky anyway, so it's more accurate to refer to them as not being added.

This section may change with the release of status-med Status-med has no design doc and isn't approved as of now.

This design document contains "sketches" of a design, and not an actual design in and of itself. To illustrate:

Allow medical scanners to print out an injury report, or otherwise send it to a log (the first of which can be stolen from frontier) for insurance billing purposes (Can exist thematically even if we do not charge for medical treatment in round) and require CMO's signoff on injury reports.

Doesn't describe why anyone would steal it, how the CMO would be required to signoff, or really anything about why this feature exists or does anything useful.

To summarize my thoughts: I think this entire design goal would only work in a HRP server with no conflict or antagonists present. The amount of paperwork required here would be largely meaningless in the current game pace for Funky. This does correctly identify an issue of command roles being "job+" roles, but proposes the solution to be simply drowning command in paperwork that has no impact at all on the round and is largely thrown into the void and never used in any way.

[Scrambledking]

"This section may change with the release of status-med" Status-med has no design doc and isn't approved as of now.

Correct this is why I didn't put in things around a system that is not implemented, and instead made reference to the high possibility of change should the document be finaly released

(the first of which can be stolen from frontier)

Stealing from frontier is referring to stealing the scanner printing system from the space station 14 server Frontier's medical scanners, aka pulling their code over to ours for it.

The CMO's sign off is for the treatment being completed. This helps them understand the on-going situation in medical and reinforces their position as having an overview of the department by knowing the damages that are being inflicted across the station. This is a particularly straight forward paperwork with the same level of completion effort as getting a delivery signed in cargo.

This can also be useful in investigations from the security department in looking for people with specific damdge types.

As for your final point this is explained in the Roundflow & Player interaction section where it states

As stated before, this paperwork is intended to be upheld in a similar vein as SOP.
It is meant to guide players who are new to the job, and provide an in-round hook for people to work off of.
The paperwork being labours and "extra" is mean to encourage some of the more experienced players to get complacent, > and the less experienced players to grow weary of it.
When that begins to happen it provides an optional in-character hook for people to play off of through the new Fines system (See the CCVIP/NTR articles for more).

Which to explain further, means that they exist for flavor and round interactions. Paperwork would align with the "expected to be broken" SOP, where the job's responsibilities are further cemented in a way that is over the top. The worst thing that will happen to someone for not completing the paperwork is likely to be a fine. I recommend looking into the SOP/NTR/IAA changes for further information.

[1Yunis1]

The issue I foresee with that is even more Stress, security is already extremely Busy and Stressful just adding more to that doesn’t seem healthy.

[Scrambledking]

Assuming you just mean the paperwork, the paperwork is required on an SOP level, not an rule level. In many situations I expect the paperwork to get somewhat ignored or skipped over as the situation demands (due to emergencies and the like).

[Gorsthir]

I strongly disagree with the view that rp and player interaction has no rule/admin impact. This should absolutely be considered for anything that would change the roleplay themes or expectations.
Anything that attempts to change the way a role plays will have administrative impact in that admins now need to consider this change and direction when ruling on matters of competence in a role, playing your character and behaving within the spirit of the job you have, as well as possibly what we would deem to be powergaming and over-escalation. It might not change the rules as written, but it definitely has an impact on how they are interpreted from the admin side.

[Scrambledking]

I may be misunderstanding something then, to my knowledge the existing paperwork in game has not been a primary deciding factor towards admin decisions (EG HoP can ask on coms for a command member to confirm a promotion instead of getting a form, or QM not keeping their return slips).

This paperwork is intended in a similar manner where there are no rules directly related to it, only SOP. As stated in the SOP document, SOP is intended to be entirely separated from rules (though there can be occasional overlap). Additionally, from what I was told, RP restrictions on command and CCVIP personnel were being lightened given they preform their standard duties of ensuring their department are working within RP, and having oversight on situations that could potential harm the station (such as lobotomies or engine failures).

To my knowledge the only playstyle that would be shaken up by these changes would be the warden/HoS dynamic, and while the warden will be getting a more explicit article later which can cover their changes explicitly after feedback here, we were informed by oBerry at the start of our workgroup that HoS's game style was leaning too far into Secoff+, which was not their intended direction as a command member.

I am also unsure how this effects powergaming and escalation if you would mind expanding on that further.

[Terkala]

It's not that the paperwork has been a deciding decision on admin issues. It's that sticking "generally" to SoP is expected of command players. Let's consider a situation:

A command member says "this is all stupid" and lights all the paperwork anyone hands them on fire, and never writes down a single thing.

Does that have an admin impact? Yes. Even the more mild situation of having a HoS going off to attack threats directly would be disallowed under this definition, and would require admin intervention to keep HoS following their SoP.

[Scrambledking]

I have seen people do that in-round already over the course of multiple rounds, including command actively and purposefully rejecting the use of paperwork such as for QMs with blueslips and even HoPs with paperwork in general. It happens atleast twice a week

[PotatOverlord]

You need to put it in SUMMARY.md

[Teasq]

I agree with the removal of these, as they serve only really to make the CMO a better surgeon. Repurposing them as a tech seems like a pretty good alternative.

[Teasq]

Offer an alternative to this that fits the CMO more. Currently it is the CMO's "self defence" tool, or plainly, their toy. I still firmly believe that command should have access to tools that are worth stealing or make them high value targets, and are otherwise a fun addition to the role. I disagree with its flat-out removal and leaving the CMO with no alternative.

[Scrambledking]

Ill consider one, though personally I don't love the idea of all of command having combat tools just because they are command (this one is only ever used for power gaming, or not at all though, so it still needs to go)

[Teasq]

The alternative of it being a stabilizing/purging tool is interesting and sounds like it is at least worth trying over the hypo with its emphasis being supporting doctors by stabilizing patients rather than just being a fancy syringe.

It is also interesting enough as a "high value" item for antagonists, as negating bloodloss is still pretty useful in many cases.

[Scrambledking]

Yep its an idea I think I posted near the week I joined funky, but I hadn't gotten deep enough to care about making myself XD

The surgery gloves were also and idea I had, but seeing them in action makes me realize they were not actually that great of a choice...

[Teasq]

I agree with this. It is left rotting in the locker 99% of the time, might as well move it over to surgery.

[Scrambledking]

Or god forbid, they are the only surgery tools mapped in in the first place, which is even more of an issue...

[Teasq]

The explosion resistance of the suit does not encourage you to be near explosions. This is like saying an armor vest encourages you to be shot. Instead, what the suit serves to do is protect the RD from explosions, which is rather common in science - even while managing the department or maybe especially when teaching new scientists.

Like you say, the slowdown already eliminates casual use of the suit so I think it's in a fine position as-is.

[Teasq]

I'm not seeing too much in this document that encourages leading their departments any more than they currently are. There's not many new tools being suggested that makes leading their department easier.

Removing tools that make them a job+ role certainly helps with them being better at the job than others, but doesn't inherently make them better at leading/commanding their department. This is made even more difficult with them practically being swamped with paperwork.

[Scrambledking]

We have ideas floating around about using RMC's large text for command headsets and the like, but with tay looking to restrict headset stuff based off of what I have seen I'm waiting to see how that shakes out.

[Teasq]

Quite frankly, I don't think we want to encourage people to grow weary of roles that that they may otherwise find interesting. If paperwork serves only to make players grow tired of it and be harassed by paper jockeys, I don't see a particularly enjoyable experience coming from it in or out of character.

[Scrambledking]

Weary may not have been the word I was looking for necessarily, but its not far off.

I don't think anyone should "enjoy" doing paperwork, and I don't think anyone "enjoys" doing the paperwork that already exists for that matter. Its a part of the job, and something that I know people would skimp on frequently or fill out unsatisfactorily in colony situations like this in the real world. As it is we already have HoPs that decide to skip paperwork in shifts, or QMs that cant be bothered to collect the slips, and RDs that "don't even realize" that there is SOP for anomaly reports. That's just a part of the expectation of the game

[Teasq]

I don't think encouraging security to punch holes into the station and potentially harming the assets they're meant to protect is the route we want to go, especially considering reasoning outlined in the EnergySec document, with one of its chief reasons for being that ballistics realistically pose too much of a threat to the station damage-wise.

[Scrambledking]

Fair enough, it was something I was mulling over and collecting feedback around mostly, making it similar to the breaching charge itself to discourage use outside of such situations

[Teasq]

This, along with all the other paperwork, needs further expanding in the document. As it stands now, paperwork is a pretty grueling process if you're the sucker that's making the forms.

[Scrambledking]

Dont worry if I am the one making the paperwork I wont make the hell forms, I think I even noted that its to avoid stuff like that XD

What would you like me to add, just the form's areas that would be used, or something else? Generally its going to be the standard "names, time, reason, other notes" style of forms. This may however change should we get fillable form fields (we pray).

[Teasq]

The warden's position in this entire document has me very confused, honestly. I'm unsure where they fit in with a refactor to command's paperwork and toys.

Furthermore, the warden's position as "warden" is also very muddied here. They manage prisoners and work with the fine system for some reason, but also take reports at the front desk. But when it goes to a higher alert level, they are suddenly an on-field squad leader. With them seemingly taking care of all the work in security, why are we relegating the head of security to being brig-bound? What would their duties then be, besides leading their department which they already do?

[Scrambledking]

As was mentioned in the conversation area, the warden will be getting a more flushed out individual doc. Its mostly mentioned here as groundwork explaining the changeup with both of them because warden currently takes over much of the commanding/overview position within security.

In essence they are staying in security/going out to gather things as second in command and the keeper of the brig till such a time where they are needed for on-site commanding for security, such as when preforming breaches and the like. It should be noted that their name will be changed too, but for the sake of this document it was deemed as un-needed.